Testing

[Brian Batcheldor]

My stating a fact is not an endorsement of it's reality. If were an historian and my chosen subject was the holocaust, would this make me a nazi? I know my comment may have pissed certain members off, but don't you think that we get pissed off by the continuous digs about all performances being drug related? Basically, if you test and you catch people, then the organization does still have a drug problem and the system is failing. If China execute thousands of people a year, do they not have a crime problem? I have no view one way or the other on drugs. When I competed in BWLA, I learnt very early that drugs were the unspoken truth and that many records were set by respected lifters while on them, -fact. My position today is that we require a level playing field and I have a system that would be fairer than any other. A time will come when it will likely be implemented, this is unavoidable. People from other organizations will still say that it is not fair, but it is real-world policy. It will ensure that those who decide to use drugs are older and more informed before they make such a choice, because no youngster will be able to slip through the net. It will also look at the signs of drug ABUSE and lifters will then be declined on that basis, as boxers are refused their license when they fail certain medical tests. You can beat a doping test far easier than you can beat a test to show that no tell-tale damage has been incurred. This real-world approach will lead to a reduction in the percentage of users, an increase in age of the average user and fewer users competing against non users, i.e. a greater reduction in percentage of users. My words were not meant to be a criticism of non users or support of users, just an explanation of what is going on in the real world. Many of you know lifters who are using and train alongside them, judgement is not the option, because, at the moment, there really is no level playing field. But I feel that within a year, we will have determined the healthiest and closest thing that you're going to get to it. I hope that this better explains my view.

[Martin Flett]

I wanted to reply on the locked thread but I'll do it here instead.

Firstly, I'm completely with Phil. Unlike most sports, powerlifting is in the almost unique situation of having tested and untested federations. As a result, 'clean' lifters and lifters who opt to take substances on the WADA banned list both have an opportunity to compete at international level. Morally, it could be argued that powerlifters have less excuse for cheating that competitors in any other sport. Those that do, in my opinion, are cheats who haven't got the balls to compete on a level playing field.

Those who help them to cheat are also cheats who are cheating clean athletes out of titles, medals and places.

Much is said about people using peds and managing to avoid testing positive. I guess this probably happens more than we'd like to acknowledge at sub-elite level, but there's a huge difference between being able to pass an in competition test and passing an out of competition one. The top BWLA lads like Clive and Phil are regularly tested out of competition, and if they're on something then statistically they would have been caught a long time ago. Also if you go back and review their figures over the last 10 - 15 years you will see a progression of slow and steady improvement over the years.

There was also mention on the other thread that suspicion about Eastern European lifters was unwarranted because they have a larger talent pool than us. That's true, and is a factor, but much of the suspicion is because testing regimes, especially out of competition, in some countries is far less rigorous than in the UK.

Brian mentions a new approach to testing which he's developed. Reading between the lines (and sorry if I'm reading this wrong) the system is based on NOT testing for peds but instead testing for physical signs of damage as a result of taking peds and withdrawing the licence to compete if such signs manifest themselves (a bit like a boxer with a detached retina). That might be appropriate and welcome for an untested federation, but it is not credible to imagine that such as system would be adopted by WADA. That would condone steroid usage and that would be politically unacceptable in much of the developed world. It will never happen. But good luck with it within your own federation.

I still believe that steroid use today causes health damage further down the line and many people who opted for the quick fix in their 20s are probably coping with the after effects now and wishing they had their time again. But if they come out and counsel others, everything they've achieved will be tainted. So they keep schtum. Most of today's masters lifters are examples of how lifting clean can promote good health in later life - the very reason many of us first stepped into a gym, I guess.

I'm not knocking people who have taken an informed decision to use steroids and the rest. Just the cheats who aren't good enough to compete with other users in an untested fed; and aren't good enough to compete clean against other clean athletes. It's a bit like Colin Montgomerie tucking his balls up his arse and playing on the ladies tour because he's not good enough to beat Tiger Woods. That would be pathetic - just as powerlifting cheats are.

[Hellspawn]

it was certainly wrong to lock a post just because someone does not like whats written they could have just deleted it if it was that bad anyway no sour grapes here about it but if testing worked there would be no reason to keep complaining about drug cheats , people cheat because they are led to believe everyone else does mainly by coaches just look at the news and how many olympic athletes , american baseball players and football players are no in court not because they failed a test but because they were grassed up by whoever led them to believe they needed to cheat in the first place

nuff said

[Phil R]

ok i will open it for you guys to carry on with

[VINNY]

If guys want to take gear and screw up thier bodies then let them - thier problem. Catch them with a drug test and ban for life I say.

[Matt M]

I do remember reading an article related to BB'ing many years back regarding health testing as opposed to drug testing, it made sense then, and makes sense now.

[Hellspawn]

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/national_doping_reports_2007.htm

IPF Testing report for Denmark, Sweden & Luxembourg (no eastern europeans)

[chinster]

I did 2 yrs on the out of comp wada testing scheme an it does affect your personal life u gotta give em 1 hour outa 5 days of every week 3 months in advance ! who the fek knows where they gonna be 3 months in advance an they say u can ring em 10mins before ur allotted time slot to let em know if ur not gonna be there its a recorded message system so u dont speak to anyone jusy leave a message an uj gotta giv em anothe hour for that day !
i chose to lift in a tested fed so had to abide with their rules u'de think with such strict testin regimes it would be a level playing field but obviously it aint .
My opinion is u shud get a lifetime ban if caught usin PED's in a tested fed not because I'm against PEDS but they chose to lift in a tested fed an they cheated !
The UK sticks to the letter on the wada policies (which is influenced by the upcomin 2012 event imho) but the rest of the world aint as rigorous with their testin procedures which is allowin cheats to compete at elite levels..
So can understand when a lifter commited to wada testin an liftin clean has to listen to someone bangin on about drugs bein used in tested fed an gettin pissed off about it..
Right I'm off to get a shot of test an a BPC membership form...:)

[Hellspawn]

its not powerlifting we should be bashing , powerlifters dont make drugs and those that do use them dont tend to use a great deal anyway , who produces them ? who sells them ? who controlls their availability ? who advocates their use ? if i catch anyone selling or bringing them into my building a life ban is the least they can expect but obviously i need to know just what is it i am suppossed to be looking for

[Carl]

My opinion is u shud get a lifetime ban if caught usin PED's in a tested fed not because I'm against PEDS but they chose to lift in a tested fed an they cheated !



i agree with this completely

[cuntos]

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/national_doping_reports_2007.htm

IPF Testing report for Denmark, Sweden & Luxembourg (no eastern europeans)
They have until the end of March to get their reports in Al. Let's hope they all manage to do it in time!

[Hellspawn]

mmmm it wont mean that much to me personly its something i have never been happy about.
its nothing much to do with powerlifting its whats gone on elsewhere if you remember over the years in the olympics it took 12 years before clenbutrol was included on the IOC list which was widly used everywhere being the only know non anabolic that had anabolic properties so why did they hold back on it ? speculation is because the year they banned it was the same year growth horemone became available in any quantity and we all know which mr squeeky clean won everything in site dont we

[Hanley]

its not powerlifting we should be bashing , powerlifters dont make drugs and those that do use them dont tend to use a great deal anyway , who produces them ? who sells them ? who controlls their availability ? who advocates their use ? if i catch anyone selling or bringing them into my building a life ban is the least they can expect but obviously i need to know just what is it i am suppossed to be looking for

While I think that's a good point, I'm not sure if they manufactures and suppliers are the ones to go after in this case. However in the case of recreational drugs which cause crime, violence and general misery I'm all for it.

These guys wouldn't have anyone to supply to if the market wasn't there for them. They're in "business" as aresult of the markets forces.