Buying a cambered squat bar

[Martin Brown]

Does anyone use a cambered bar?

Looked at buying one for the gym i train at simply because straight bar squatting is destroying my shoulders and elbows so much. I've tried to widen my grip distance but doesnt seem comfortable or safe too wide and my hands get crushed re-racking.

Anyone had similar problems and were they fixed using a cambered bar?

Are the ones Watsons do anygood?
http://www.gymequipment.uk.com/store/item/167x2/Specialised_Equipment/Safety_Squat_Bar.html

Thanks for any help
Martin

[Hellspawn]

http://www.hirepgym.com/images/Strongman/hatfield-bar.gif

yep mine is the very first one in UK got it off Fred Hatfield years ago i also got the special handles for the power rack.

http://www.hirepgym.com/images/machines/camber-bar.gif

Got a Westside Camber Bar as well
Like you i also have a bad shoulder that makes backsquats impossible but can do 280kg + bench squats on an SSB

[Matt M]

Is there anything you dont have! :eek:

My training partner and I are going to come down in the next couple of weeks to have a session in your Alladins cave of awesome equipment.

[gerthebear]

cambered bar is designed to take the stress off the shoulders, and the safety squat bar puts the bar higher on the back forcing you forward and recruiting more muscles to make you combat against the off balance, in turn strengthening the posterior chain.

i cant see a cambered bar fixing the problem of sore shoulders but it might give the shoulders time to heal or work out any injuries, if the pain is bad i would go to physio and also take note of dynamic exercises to loosen the shoulder before training.

either way i would invest in a cambered bar or SSB because the ideas behind them are sound!

[Hellspawn]

Is there anything you dont have! :eek:

My training partner and I are going to come down in the next couple of weeks to have a session in your Alladins cave of awesome equipment.

Lol if we dont have it you dont need it

Sure be good to see you and its better if you try something out yourself before comitting to buy it , we also have a Robert Barbaran version of the front squat harness and the power rack is converted to band choking pegs from all angles so you can try the bars out with bands or chains , only thing about an SSB is once you get over 280 / 300 kg it starts to tear your shoulders off mind you i had blue bands on as well so i suppose i asked for it realy :(

Al @ hirep

[Matt M]

Lol if we dont have it you dont need it

Sure be good to see you and its better if you try something out yourself before comitting to buy it , we also have a Robert Barbaran version of the front squat harness and the power rack is converted to band choking pegs from all angles so you can try the bars out with bands or chains , only thing about an SSB is once you get over 280 / 300 kg it starts to tear your shoulders off mind you i had blue bands on as well so i suppose i asked for it realy :(

Al @ hirep

Are you there every day, as it will be good to say hello.

I can see a 5hr training session in the works, just so I can try all your equipment, :p

[Doc D]

Does anyone use a cambered bar?

'Cambered squat bar' has various (quite different) interpretations:
1. Safety squat/Hatfield bar
2. Rounded/Buffalo bar
3. Westside cambered bar (shaped like a yoke)

1. Frankly, while a safety squat bar (i.e. the product to which you have linked) has its merits, it is a very different movement from low-bar squats: it might have some benefits for your PL squat, but can't replace it.

2. The Buffalo bar is much more similar to a standard PL squat, and allows you to carry the bar in a comparable low position. The bend in the bar prevents movement on the back, reducing much of the stress on the wrists.
NB: The Watson version of this kind of bar is *not* good for carrying low (but is fine for hig-bar work). I'd recommend Ironmind or SS Power if you want a low-bar position.

3. I've never used a Westside cambered bar - I know that Hellspawn has one. The mechanics are again quite different from a PL squat.

[Hellspawn]

Are you there every day, as it will be good to say hello.

I can see a 5hr training session in the works, just so I can try all your equipment, :p

Open 7 days a week and i am here all the time
Mon - Friday 10am -9pm
Sat - 10am - 6pm
Sun - 10am - 2pm (i am still here personly till around 6-7pm)

Dont have a Buffalo Bar because it still dont get around the problem of a damaged shoulder and if Ano and the Metal lads dont use one thats good enough for me . (Notice Sakari often has second hand ones for sale )
SSB gives a very upright squat position like doing front squats but with more weight than you can back squat, this bar will not tolerate someone trying to backsquat it you must maintain a very upright possition when using it.
Westside Camber Bar i like this bar but its about 2" too wide for me personly otherwise it would be perfect , only point to watch out for is loading and unloading the bar you must take the weights off evenly or it will take off like a rocket !

[Doc D]

I've found the Buffalo Bar to be much kinder on elbows, biceps tendons, and wrists (a concern for me, as I prefer to take a fairly narrow grip, which can be harsh on a wrist which has already undergone an operation). I particularly like the stability when lifting for higher reps (hence the reduction in stress on biceps tendons). I don't have real shoulder problems and so cannot provide an empirical assessment of advantages for those who are afflicted: I would imagine that the greater stability would be easier on the shoulder than a straight bar, but this does not remove the necessity (and, presumably, pain) of having to get the hands up and back to hold the bar.

[Hellspawn]

I've found the Buffalo Bar to be much kinder on elbows, biceps tendons, and wrists (a concern for me, as I prefer to take a fairly narrow grip, which can be harsh on a wrist which has already undergone an operation). I particularly like the stability when lifting for higher reps (hence the reduction in stress on biceps tendons). I don't have real shoulder problems and so cannot provide an empirical assessment of advantages for those who are afflicted: I would imagine that the greater stability would be easier on the shoulder than a straight bar, but this does not remove the necessity (and, presumably, pain) of having to get the hands up and back to hold the bar.

Thats exactly the problem Doc one arm just dont want to know about going back that far to get hold of a straight bar then if you do manage to get it back far enough it is extreemly painfull when you rerack the bar and want to let go of it again it just feels like your tearing the shoulder apart.
If you got a problem you must at least try to find a solution to it though trying out the kit first can save you a lot of time & money , i have a hell of a lot of kit here most of which i dont personly use but try to cater for everyone (as long as its power/strength related cardio kiddy's can find somewhere else Lol)

[gerthebear]

surely a safety squat bar has its merits doc. the idea is to put the bar high on the back and throw you more forward ,in turn forcing you to use more muscle in the posterior chain. nothing can ever replce a squat because this is what we have to do in comp. but when there are people out there putting up large numbers in the squat and are swearing by cambered and safety squat bars, how cud it not have merit? ive learned over the last while the squatting week in and week out with straight weight is not the only way of improving the squat. thats my two cents anyway

[Hellspawn]

SSB is very effective and efficiant , because it makes you squat in perfect form (you will be sorry if you dont) its effects are very different from other bars or any other machine it bites right down to the bone and brings in quads, hams & glutes very evenly with very little stress to lower back , this is one of the two reasons i think is why you can move so much weight with it the other being you can use rack handles to stabalise yourself avoiding bombouts and being able to push yourself further than you would ever dare do with a normal bar.

[Hellspawn]

Actualy i just read what Ger said about the SSB throwing you foreward its actualy the weight that further foreward not you but if you accidently put the bar in the rack the wrong way round (which does easily happen as its not marked) it will sling you straight out the back of the rack as soon as you try to unrack it !

[Martin Brown]

Ideally I'd have a whole load of bars but cost is a big issue, and it aint my gym...

Im looking to recreate the PL squat as much as possible, i get alot out of chain squats / band squats.

Actually i dont have a shoulder problem other than that which heavy squatting has caused, it started as bicep tendonitis in the forarm area and this last week or two has become front delt/ bicep origin tendon problems also. Its really p*ssed me off as thing seemed to be going great but if i squat i cant bench :(

So if buying any bar will help relieve the stress from the front delt and bicep tendons im all for it. So would the bar in the link help? General consensus is yeas i guess? I'd like a SSB as well but dont think it'll do the same for me and costs more

Edit: Doc D does the buffalo bar noticebly reduce bicep tendonitis? DO you have a link to the Ironmind or SS Power bars?

[Hellspawn]

The bar in your link is an SSB

Here are some more to look at

http://www.voimaharjoittelu.net/free-weights-speciality-bars-c-32_48.html

Sakari often has second hand ones for sale and i spoke to him only yesterday and he told me his getting rid of all the kit in his personal gym which he does every three years so might be some bargains going.

[Martin Brown]

The bar in your link is an SSB

Here are some more to look at

http://www.voimaharjoittelu.net/free-weights-speciality-bars-c-32_48.html

Sakari often has second hand ones for sale and i spoke to him only yesterday and he told me his getting rid of all the kit in his personal gym which he does every three years so might be some bargains going.



I cant get the link to work...

Sh*t, Im sure i posted up this link :
http://www.gymequipment.uk.com/store/item/166ix/Special_Bars/Olympic_Cambered_Squat_Bar.html (http://www.gymequipment.uk.com/store/item/166ix/Special_Bars/Olympic_Cambered_Squat_Bar.html)

Im retarded because of my tendonitis ;) Its the olly cambered squat bar im looking at getting not a SSB, dont have much spare cash so 100-150 quid max.

Do you know what he has going Hellspawn?

[Doc D]

surely a safety squat bar has its merits doc.

Certainly - but not if you are trying to duplicate the movement of a PL squat. Hellspawn has described the differences very eloquently (and these are all the greater if you hold supports, rather than the yokes). Have you found a direct carry-over from your use of the SSB?

[Doc D]

Its the olly cambered squat bar im looking at getting not a SSB, dont have much spare cash so 100-150 quid max.


The Watson one will fit in your budget, but I'd reiterate the caveats mentioned above. If you carry the bar low, all the weight is on the rear delts (where there is no knurling), and so it is both uncomfortable and slippery. At least for me - others might not have a problem.

I bought an Ironmind one for a gym that I used to run. Wonderful piece of kit, but Pullum's flog them for £500! Cheaper to order from the States, but then come postage, taxes, etc. etc.

SS Power ones are thicker - 40mm bar. Steeper camber than Ironmind bar, and not knurled, but still grips well in low-bar position (not polished chrome or anything). Second-hand, it might just squeeze in your budget, and Sakke offers great service - but delivery charges add up.

[Hellspawn]

I cant get the link to work...

Sh*t, Im sure i posted up this link :
http://www.gymequipment.uk.com/store/item/166ix/Special_Bars/Olympic_Cambered_Squat_Bar.html (http://www.gymequipment.uk.com/store/item/166ix/Special_Bars/Olympic_Cambered_Squat_Bar.html)

Im retarded because of my tendonitis ;) Its the olly cambered squat bar im looking at getting not a SSB, dont have much spare cash so 100-150 quid max.

Do you know what he has going Hellspawn?

ah i think Watsons are being missleading thats a buffalo bar in the link as its not cranked into an actual camber ie you can get a cambered bench press bar an SSB is cambered and there is the westside cambered squat & gm bar but that bar in the link i would deffinatly term as being a buffalo bar

[Hellspawn]

Certainly - but not if you are trying to duplicate the movement of a PL squat. Hellspawn has described the differences very eloquently (and these are all the greater if you hold supports, rather than the yokes). Have you found a direct carry-over from your use of the SSB?

i wish i could find a carry over but i cant get hold of a straight bar to test it out my shoulders just too badly damaged now i keep trying every idea going i wont give up till there are no more ideas left , i can still keep strong and thats the main point here where injury prevents being able to do a competition squat.

[Doc D]

ah i think Watsons are being missleading thats a buffalo bar in the link as its not cranked into an actual camber ie you can get a cambered bench press bar an SSB is cambered and there is the westside cambered squat & gm bar but that bar in the link i would deffinatly term as being a buffalo bar

Hence my earlier attempts at disambiguation. The term 'cambered squat bar' was originally used for the Buffalo-style one - cf. Strossen's writings on the genesis of the bar. In Hardgainer/HIT circles (cf. McRobert's books), this has led to Buffalo-style bars being commonly referred to as 'cambered squat bars' (which usage then has to be qualified by explanations that they are not the same shape as cambered bench bars).

What a cruel mistress language is! The eternal slippage between signifier and signified...

[Doc D]

Doc D does the buffalo bar noticebly reduce bicep tendonitis? DO you have a link to the Ironmind or SS Power bars?

I've read quite a few people say that it does. I haven't had such problems as to be able to judge - but the fact that I don't have sore tendons might itself be significant! Certainly much easier on the wrists (a real concern for me)

[Doc D]

i wish i could find a carry over but i cant get hold of a straight bar to test it out.

My question was rather directed at Ger, but I understand your frustration. If the worst comes to the worst, have you thought about hip belt squats? Nick McKinless wrote about using them recently. They're a pain in the arse to set up, but high reps at least have some effect - although I doubt that there would be any carry-over to PL squats.

[Hellspawn]

My question was rather directed at Ger, but I understand your frustration. If the worst comes to the worst, have you thought about hip belt squats? Nick McKinless wrote about using them recently. They're a pain in the arse to set up, but high reps at least have some effect - although I doubt that there would be any carry-over to PL squats.

Nick ha ha i got a Nautilus machine that was specialy designed to use a squat belt on (and its got a possitive cam) saves a lot of kafufel setting it up i just had to buy a spud belt for it after the last one finaly snapped not bad for 30 years use.

here is another link might be of use as the got a sale with 30% off at moment

http://www.gymratz.co.uk/commercial-gym-equipment/cat38_1.htm

[Doc D]

[QUOTE=Hellspawn;72643]

here is another link might be of use as the got a sale with 30% off at moment
QUOTE]

Gymratz sell Watson's equipment.

[Hellspawn]

Actualy you just reminded me of when Arthur and Garry Jones tried to build the perfect squat device they had to dig a sixteen foot hole in the floor just so the cam that was needed could turn round it ended up costing several million $ and two different versions were made before they gave up and invented the negative cam which they used on the super duo squat

yep i got one of those as well Lol
http://www.hirepgym.com/images/machines/super-duo-squat-1.jpg

this is what nautilus uses for belt squats and the stack is more than adequate and you can add more weight if needed , notice it uses a lever to attach the belt to so you start from a very low possition

http://www.hirepgym.com/images/machines/multi-exerciser.jpg

all good stuff but they are machines and we need barbells

[gerthebear]

Certainly - but not if you are trying to duplicate the movement of a PL squat. Hellspawn has described the differences very eloquently (and these are all the greater if you hold supports, rather than the yokes). Have you found a direct carry-over from your use of the SSB?

ive only ever tried one out at another gym. but the way i see it, you dont have to only squat improve the squat.

basically what im saying is im a big fan of the conjugate method and those at WSB are getting big carry over form it. plus the articles ive read about it from WSB, Elite fts and t-nation all have trends in common which mean it must work unless these people wouldnt be using it.

i wouldnt be so quick to dismiss it to those interested in it. have you tried it out enough in fashion describe by the big name users of it e.g squatting to a box, to decide wether its good or bad? im hoping to get one in our gym and the only way i would use it would be on a box.

[Hellspawn]

Ian Conner (Bane) came here to try out the kit and this was his first ever go at using an SSB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGNS-87V874

[Doc D]

have you tried it out enough in fashion describe by the big name users of it e.g squatting to a box, to decide wether its good or bad?

Yes, I have. It might contribute to overall strength, but *for me* it doesn't translate well to PL squat. Please note that observing that the SSB does not duplicate a PL squat does not constitute a dismissal of its effectiveness as an exercise! Nowadays, I use it mostly holding onto rack handles for squats when my back is tired (e.g. after DL). Best uses for me are actually for standing calf raise (so much better than a machine) and, especially, good mornings.

[Hellspawn]

This another strongman compeditor Colin "Llamapower" Anderson using the SSB for the first time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFHOVNB0C7s

Ian Conner first go on Westside Camber Bar and weight releasers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSxXf3XTe9E

not quite upto Ano's standard yet but we were just learning Lol

[gerthebear]

Yes, I have. It might contribute to overall strength, but *for me* it doesn't translate well to PL squat. Please note that observing that the SSB does not duplicate a PL squat does not constitute a dismissal of its effectiveness as an exercise! Nowadays, I use it mostly holding onto rack handles for squats when my back is tired (e.g. after DL). Best uses for me are actually for standing calf raise (so much better than a machine) and, especially, good mornings.

well i cant knock you expirience of the bar. it just seems to me that there are more people benefiting from this bar than those who arent. there are many people getting a LOT of direct carry over to their squat and these people are powerlifters. of course it can never replace the squat for obvious reasons. perhaps those who are after general training and health and fitness wont find much use for it. but for the strength athlete in powerlifting, squatting every week with a texas power bar doing sets of x and y can simply put a stop, sooner or later to the progress (with the exception of a good few numbers). plus i think the use of more equipment, when used wisely and correctly and generate a bit more mental stimulation to training. knowning that your squat is moving upwards without having to do it every week letting the fun of it go stale

[Hellspawn]

i think what some might be missing is that although many powerlifters might be well capable of lifting big numbers in the back squat that does not make them technicly good squaters as far as building muscle into the desired areas are concerned , many are just that "backlifters" SSB stops you doing that and forces you to be more upright so complements the ineffeciantcies in the back squat movement generly by using both you get the best of both worlds and getting back to the original post its handy to have an SSB standing by in case of injuries that might well have stopped you squatting at all.

[Hellspawn]

Another very good reason why you should consider an SSB is cos "Shaf" himself uses one quite a lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABuPlZpHZ0I

[Hellspawn]

Dunno how i ever missed this one i need to keep a closer watch on Shaf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o2bgi01YpU&feature=user

now thats cos he got the bar round the wrong way as i described earlier

[gerthebear]

who the hell is shaf? pardon my ignorance

[Hellspawn]

who the hell is shaf? pardon my ignorance


Lol Steve Shafly "Shaf" i couldnt stand the sight of him at first but he grows on you and his well worth watching as he knows how to demonstrate a lot of the Dave Tate stuff better than Dave Tate does it

[Martin Brown]

Not so sure on his KB split snatches lol

I think the comment regarding gayer than actually being gay is rather appropriate for them

[Hellspawn]

well you can watch Shaf for free while Dave Tate charges a lot for his DVD's :) and Shaf at least keeps his bloopers in so his good for a laugh too:p

[Matt M]

Dunno how i ever missed this one i need to keep a closer watch on Shaf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o2bgi01YpU&feature=user

now thats cos he got the bar round the wrong way as i described earlier

Lol :p

[Matt M]

That SSB looks like an awesome bit of kit, another thing to try ;)