The Contender

[Justin Hurley]

Did anyone watch the contender on ITV2 last night?

I thought it was a great show and the fight at the end between the two middleweights was 1st class.

It's on again at 9pm next monday.

[Matt M]

I watched the repete on ITV last night, I thought it was great. I was surprised the loser, did not do more damage as he looked dangerous in sparing. Excellent fight though.

What a fantastic gym!

The UFC have a similar style show in the US at the moment, I have seen a few of the episodes, I hope that gets shown over here.

[Justin Hurley]

I have heard about the UFC type event, haven't seen an episode yet though.

I thought it was fixed when Manfredo performed so bad against Gomez probably the worst there. I don't think an actor could have been so sincerely upset as he was at the end. It made me think that it was genuine, and Gomez done what a lot of fighters do when put in a similar position like that, and that is pull everything out of the bag on the night. He did take the fight to him from the onset and never let manfredo breath.

The black guy from philly killed himself after they finished filming the series.

[Catch Wrestler]

Nytol,
How was you able to see that ufc stuff if it isn't on over here yet??

[Matt M]

I downloaded it off the net, but I think that may be what got me my virus, so it was not worth it really.

Good show though.

Do you wrestle?

[AJ Roberts]

Go to www.spiketv.com and click the ultimate fighter link for videos of the fights, it is a similar show to the Contender.

[Justin Hurley]

Another good fight last night, Jesse was another example of someone pulling it out on the night, one thing you cant take away from Jesse though, and that was his punching power, if John didn't have a good chin, I think he would have dropped him with those right hands.
I wish they would show more of the fight though. They edit it so you see about 30 secs of each round.

Did you see Stallone with sparring gloves on using the sparring partner as a punch bag to try and impress the lads as they walked in??? He only threw about 5 punches and was blowing out of his ass....lol

[Catch Wrestler]

Yes,Nytol,I do wrestle(well not so much now,as I've got a back injury).Catch wrestling,greco and freestyle(as well as boxing and other martial arts).For groundfighting,there's nothing better than catch wrestling!!!!!

[Justin Hurley]

Tell me something about catch wrestling Chris.
I have done a bit of jujitsu over the years, but I'm not familiar with catch wrestling.

[JohnOvManchester]

1st fight... I knew alfonso was gonna take him out when his dad said "you've been in with the best".
Also, the other guy was too worried and totally unsettled before hand, I think his nervousness zapped his stamina.

2nd fight... another (hate to say it) I thought jesse would take it. The black guy looked a bit slow when sparring and I think his age played a part in his stamina even though he looked in great shape.
Jesse just over powered him.

I can not believe the mouthy black guy didn't have a go at pretty boy!!!
I can see what he was saying when he said he didn't want to be pressured but after that especially getting called out in public has not done him any good.
He really needs to go to town come fight night.
All the boyz should fix it so Eastside wins and let pretty boy pick him... Now that would be good TV.

Rocky (I mean stallone) made a dic of himself in that little staged bit of sparring, he couldn't even talk.

good show this though.

[Justin Hurley]

This show has lived up to the hype. I really like it, but both weeks I have been emotionally torn between who I going to chear for. I wanted both fighters to win, but there can only be one winner.
Being a father myself I could really sympathise with John when he went home and the kids were playing up. I laughed when he said he was trying to get into fight mode but how could he with world three between the kids and a Mrs just about to give birth any minute.
Jesse seems a lovely fella, and just wanted to prove himself when everyone was doubting him.

I also had a good laugh when the mouthy black kid said I'm going to fight next, and then when eastside won and said who do want to fight then and he said don't single me out....LOL

[Catch Wrestler]

Just.,
I haven't got enough time right now to answer your question properly,but I'll definately answer it tomorrow.

BTW,When you say you've done JJ, do you mean Japanese JJ or Brazilian JJ??

[Justin Hurley]

Both

[Catch Wrestler]

CatchasCatchCan wrestling is the art of submission.Our main strategy is submission submission submission all the way!!!Get a submission from any position(whilst always being in control whilst always maintaining your wrestling),and submissions supercede anything else.Establishing a position(which is the main thing in other groundfighting arts),doesn't win you the fight(in and of itself),you still have to take the guy out via a strike or a finishing hold.We also believe in ending the fight quickly.We don't want an hour fight or a thirty minute fight,we want to end it fast.Catch was invented for the streetnot for some kind of tournament where you have so many rules.In other arts,they use the analogy of wanting to be like a wet wash rag,so as to be able to stick to the opponent etc.We prefer to be like a steamroller going over concrete!!!!!!!!! Another analogy that typifies catch wrestling,is that we use every part of our body as a weapon,and every part of the opponents body as a target.
Unlike other arts that only have arm bars and chokes as submissions,we also have them,but we also have neck cranks,hip cranks,spine locks,calf compressions,top wrist locks,double wrist locks,short arm scissors(to the arm and to the leg),ripping and grinding techniques,face bars,the full nelson family of submissions and our speciality - leg locks.In fact catch is known as the art of the leg lock.We have an array of leg locks from a whole variety of positions,both on top and underneath the opponent.Also,when we go for a submission,we don't think of one submission in particular,but rather,we think along the lines of"I'm going to break this guys leg or arm, or whatever."Therefore,we're not narrowing our train of though,but we're broadening it.We're going to do whatever it takes to break this guys leg.If he moves a certain way to counter the hold, We'll just chain right into another submission,where he is just getting himself deeper and deeper into trouble. Also,we don't wait for the guy to make a mistake(which could take all day),rather,we make him create a mistake.....

[Catch Wrestler]

....Bach in the day of catch wrestling(back in the 18th century),there were a lot of carnival wrestlers who used to travel with the carnivals where they would have an open challenge to take on allcomers.For somebody to win the money that was on offer by the carnivals,they didn't have to beat the carni wrestlers,just last a certain length of time with them(usually about two minutes),so the carni wrestlers had to develop a way of fighting,that was capable of ending the fight as fast as possible.This is how catch wrestling was born!!!!
Today,The greatest living proponent of catch wrestling is Tony Cecchine,who resides in Chicago.

[Justin Hurley]

Looks really good Chris.

Where do you train?

Wouldn't sitting in on a session to see what it's all about.

[Catch Wrestler]

Just.,
Catch wrestling is absolutely awesome!!!! Much more realistic for the street than other groundfighting arts.

As for my training,I don't actually do it these days as I have too much pain when practising with my bad back.I can still do some moves,but I don't do a full workout 'cos my back hurts too much.

[Justin Hurley]

I'm not much interested in fighting in the street, I have learnt my lesson and I'm always on my best behaviour when out to town these days.

I love wrestling / grappling though. Where do you they teach it??... I'd like to sit in on a lesson and see what it's all about.

[Justin Hurley]

BTW - If you missed the contender, it's on tonight at 2305. It's repeated every Thursday at the same time.

[Catch Wrestler]

Just.,
Because catch wrestling is a dying art,which is why it is known as "the lost art of hooking," you won't see any classes around here.It's just not that popular over here.In fact,I'm the only one in Europe that has been given the blessing of Tony Cecchine to teach it!!!!!!!!!

[Rob Thomas]

I recorded the contender on Monday and just watched it. I'm gutted I missed the first one as it looks a great show. As JonOfManchester said, I liked watching that Ishe(??) wimp out of fighting Achmed - he was all mouth before hand but didn't want to know when he had the chance. Hats off to Jesse, he picked Jonathan because he thought he was a good fighter.

Looking forward to next week's show now.

[Matt M]

I train with a guy who is 64 and has been a wrestler for over 40 years, he is a big fan of catch wrestling. He would rather go for the face bar than a choke, he still rolls with people a third of his age, he is amazing.

[Alex Gold]

What's his name? Not John Hall is it?

[Matt M]

Yes it is, do you know him?

[Alex Gold]

Yes, trained with him a fair amount at Hammerlock. You go to his club then?

[Matt M]

Yes.

[Catch Wrestler]

Nytol,
Tell me about this Guy - Where he lives,where he trains,who he learnt his wrestling from(particularly his catch wrestling).Much appreciated if you can give me some more info about him.
Thanks.

[Matt M]

To be honest I dont know a great deal about his personal life, he lives in Kent as far as I know, he worked as a Doorman in London for 25 years, got shot etc.

He has wrestled freestyle, and 'pro'. Golden may know some more, but I will ask him when I see him next week.

He did drop some 54 year old a few months back who was having a go at his (John's) wife. :lol:

He can still cause you imense pain when he wants to, he likes all the spiteful moves that hurt, :D .

Absolutely lovely guy though.

[Catch Wrestler]

Sounds interesting.That's what catch is all about - using the spiteful moves that REALLY hurt,and causing immense pain!!!

[Rob Thomas]

Just watched tonights episode. I wasn't impressed at all with that Achmed guy, I rekon Ishi battered him (from what we saw). I didn't like Ishi after last weeks's episode when he wimped out of fighting achmed but I'm glad he fought him and beat him tonight though as I didn't like the way Achmed was disrespecting Leonard when he was sparring with him. I bet Leonard would have KO'd him within a second if he'd wanted to - even at his age!

[Justin Hurley]

The last two weeks I have liked both fighters and found it hard to choose who to back.
This week I don't like either fighter and want both to loose, again it was hard to choose who to back.

I hate the way they edit the fight, I wish they showed more than 30 secs of each round.

[Rob Thomas]

I thought that (from what we saw) Achmed was just trying to bang him out whereas Ishi seemed to have more boxing skill. I think that Achmed would have made a good champion though due to his looks and attitude.

[Matt M]

It seemed to me that the 'pretty boy' did not like getting hit.

I agree with Justin, I liked all the fighters from the past weeks, but this week I did not like either, but Ishi seemed to redeem himself a bit, so I was hoping he would win, but I did not expect him to.

I thought this weeks challenge was a bit weak, compared to last weeks.

[JohnOvManchester]

Missed it!!!
Will have to watch it Thursday.

Next one I want to happen is Jesse vs Ishi after Jesse dissing him in front of everyone at the press conferance before Jesses fight and Ishi telling the older guy from the other side he wanted him to take Jesse out.

[JohnOvManchester]

Good fight, they cut too much out though.

I hope they vote pretty boy back and give him the rematch just to see his girlfriends face again!!!
Ishi's GF was like "you only sad cause yer loosin'" like a proper home girl - funny stuff.

[Justin Hurley]

As much as I didn't like Ishe before this weeks episode, I have to say he did do a good job of redeeming himself.
I have a sneaky feeling they are going to vote pretty boy back because he makes good TV.

I think it could be better if they didn't use sparring gloves (16oz) and used the proper competition 10oz gloves. Might see that cocky, smug pretty boy get knocked out.

Pretty boy reminds me of a lad I used to box with, he was an awesome boxer, and pretty boy could be as good, probably better if he boxed smarter and didn't think he knew it all and listen to his trainers, he has a good reach but instead of using it, he's in their mixing it up...

[Matt M]

The gloves did not look as big as 16oz ones to me last night.

Very sad that that guy killed himself, do you know any details Justin?

He was doing well but seemed to just burn out.

I love the fact that not a single person voted to bring back the cocky prick. :lol:

[Rob Thomas]

He looked very good in that 2nd round but as you said, seemed to fade away after that. Shame he killed himself, especially seing as he had that young daughter aswell.

[Matt M]

Yeah, my wife was nearly in tears when I said that he killed himself, (she's pregnant and a bit emotional) :D

[Justin Hurley]

Shut up, I nearly cried.

[Justin Hurley]

I really wanted Najal to win, I wasn't that fussed on that Sergio. Especially when he was doing all that cocky shit in the ring.

Najal didn't seem all there to me. When you looked at his eyes, it was as if he wasn't at home. Didn't show much aggression or determination.

I'm not too sure about the gloves, I'm sure they aren't 10oz, mine don't have nowhere near as much padding. I have 14oz sparring gloves that look about the same size as they were using. Considering the blows Najal and Sergio took, neither got shook or showed much marking around the face.

http://www.blogofdeath.com/images/nturpin.jpg

Najal shot himself in the head while his Mrs was in the car outside the gym where he trains at in Philly. Nobody really knows the reason why he did it. It sounds like it was depression, things had just built up and he didn't have the mental strength to handle it.

Najai was from the ghetto and was left to raise his younger siblings. He mother was sick and he hadn't trained for a year. His mother then died which cut him up. Just one day before he received the news that he had been chosen as one of the Contenders, he was robbed in an armed robbery. He described his chance at boxing greatness as a sign from God. Maybe the failure was the final blow, he felt like he had let everyone down and he was being dealt some nasty shit.

It really upset me watching the show knowing what happened afterwards, I was there welling up with my Mrs laughing at me calling me a poof. (cough, cough, shit it's smoky in here...lol)

[Matt M]

It is very sad. I think most of the boxers on the show will get better pay days now, just because people know who they are.

The gloves looked smaller than my 14oz ones, but as you say they were taking some clean shots, which did not seem to do any damage.

[JohnOvManchester]

Najai looked sharp and fast in training (sparring) but on the night it just wasn't the same, I don't think he wanted to be there.
He had it in him to just decide to take the other guy out easily but just didn't... It wasn't that he lost, he choose to loose.
Deffinatly had head fcuk.

I read it was all about an argument over his daugter.

[Justin Hurley]

Yeah I read it was because his Mrs wouldn't let him see their daughter. Most people can see past arguements, but I think it just all got to him and he done something very silly and selfish.

I'm so glad Manfredo won tonight, he fought a tough fight. He is looking really out of shape, it was just his massive heart and desire that won him that fight. Hopefully now he can get fit with the few weeks he has without the likelyhood of a fight.
It always sad to see someone lose but I didn't like the other fella, especially when he hit manfredo well after the bell had sounded.

So far Ishe has looked the best to me out of all the fighters we have seen.

[bufftechnician]

I'm not so sure after hearing about Najai's suicide(which may however be totally unrelated to the defeat in teh program) but a few people have questioned how coreographed the fights seem and how little damage the fighters suffer esp. seeing how many hard knocks they appear to be taking.

[Justin Hurley]

Yeah I think the fact they don't get injured as much is because they are definately not using the standard 10oz competition gloves. IMO they are either 14oz or 16oz sparring gloves. Maybe it makes better TV to use more padded gloves so the fighters don't get really bruised up or cut. The fighters are fighting a lot more close togther than a normal professional fighter would, maye this is one of the reasons.

[JohnOvManchester]

Manfraido only just made it through that one, he's lucky the other guy didn't have the strength to knock him out early in the fight.
I think Manfraido is over-rated personally, doesn't look in the same league as Ishe.

would love to see a UK version of the contender.

[bigger shaolinmonk]

I like Peter Manfraido, he looked deadly in the first episode when he was sparring, although I watched the repeat on itv last night and he didn't look too good, i'd like to see him fight Ishe.

[Justin Hurley]

I'd like to see Manfredo use the next few weeks to get fit, before fighting again. He has the skill and definately the heart from watching last weeks episode, but lacks stamina. From all accounts he had a fairly long lay off prior to being called for the show, not the most perfect way to prepare.

Ishe is by far the best I have seen so far.

[Matt M]

What are your thoughts on, that guy picking who he wanted rather that who his team wanted?

I thought he was right to do so personaly, and he also looked like one of the best fighters I have seen so far.

[Rob Thomas]

I think that when it comes down to the final two, the team will have nothing to do with it so perhaps he's got the right idea although you can understand why his team was pissed.

As for his fight, I agree with you Nytol, he definatly seemed to be the hungriest fighter I've seen there so far although I missed the first fight so can't comment on that one. That said, he was quite a bit stronger and better than the guy he fought though and I still think Ishe has the class.

[JohnOvManchester]

He agreed to pick the other guy!!!

I mean all along he could have said, nah I want to fight the other guy but don't tell him.
He decieved everyone - coward IMO


Yeh play your own game but that time t was just pointless, next person he fights there just gonna take his head off.

[Matt M]

I reckon he will do well, I think the reason he decieved the team was so he got to go forward and pick, if they had not put the effort into the challenge, he would have not had the oppertunity.

The UFC version, starts on Bravo on May 3rd.

[Leeds_loiner]

So who do you guys think will win the contender?

Personally im routing for Anthony but I bet Manfredo wins it now he is back. lol

[Justin Hurley]

The contender is a great show, first show thats actually lived up to the hype but I think the UFC version will be better.

[Matt M]

From what I have seen of 'The Ultimate Fighter', it is more training oriented, which is the main thing I dont like about the Contender, you dont see them train much, and dont see them fight much.

I really dont care where they go out to dinner.

[JohnOvManchester]

The Jessie v Anthony fight the other night was a good un.
Both of them could have taken it. I am glad jessie won though as Anthony played on that hamstring a bit too much.

[Justin Hurley]

It was a great fight, both hard hitters. Seemed as if Jesse didn't quite want it as much as Anthony though. It was more of a amateur slug out than a professional boxing match, and those type of fights are great to watch, very unpredictable results, as shown in that fight.

Yeah... didn't hear a mention of the torn hamstring. Come on, if you tear a hamstring, you know about it.

I think Jesse was lucky to win. There is no such thing as a lucky punch, it either connects or doesn't, jesse threw it and it connected, good night. Anthony was visiting another place after that shot, because he surely wasn't at home.

Like the corner said to Anthony, you have tried boxing Jesse and it ain't working so go and fight him, and fair play he did exactly that, and he was on top of him and looking like he had the fight in the bag, then 30 secs from the end of the last round, BANG, game over. You choose for a slug fest with another hard hitter, you got expect that.

[Justin Hurley]

I think a brilliant final will be with sergio and gomez, my money is on sergio to win. I'm sure it will be an awesome fight if it works out that those two are in the final together.

[Justin Hurley]

Also how the hell does Jesse go home to that every night.

My prediction is that Manfredo and Sergio will be in the final and Manfredo will run out of steam and Sergio will pull him apart....lol

[AJ Roberts]

I watched the final the other night and was really impressed with the fighters. I wont give anything away as i don't wanna ruin it, but just a heads up you don't wanna miss it!

[Justin Hurley]

what do you reckon on my prediction AJ.

[AJ Roberts]

if i was a betting man i'd be off to the bookie

[Justin Hurley]

LOL...something tells me I have read a certain US site.

[JohnOvManchester]

I don't really rate Manfredo... not saying he's no good but he just doesn't live up to the hype, I think it's just that he looks th part.

Jesse need to trade that bird in for a newer model she look's a proper hoe.
I think although Anthony did have Jesse at a few points I think he was just an anoyance to Jesse and when Jesse wanted to turn up the heat he could have done.
He just let himself get tangled up in the time's when Anthony was on top but apart from that could have ended it earlier IMO.

I agree, snake will take it as long as he doesn't get tagged.

[Rob Thomas]

Yeah, Jessie caught Anthony with a peach of a shot and you could see good night in his eyes straight away. This is a great show with absolutely no expense spared - I hope they make a second one!

[Justin Hurley]

They are not making a 2nd series. Considering it was such a hit, I don't know why. I suspect some other network will buy it and put there stamp on it. It will either be better or a lot worse, who knows. I just hope they do actually put another series together.

[Rob Thomas]

Yeah, I like the combination of Stallone and Sugar Ray. Stallone brings all the glitz and hollywood glamour and I don't think you'd get a much better boxer than Leonard on the show.

That said, I wish Sly would stop telling Leonard what's going on in the fight as I'm sure Leonard has got a fair idea!!

[JohnOvManchester]

still makes me laugh that "rocky" thinks he's and old pro.

[Matt M]

Yeah, Jessie caught Anthony with a peach of a shot and you could see good night in his eyes straight away. This is a great show with absolutely no expense spared - I hope they make a second one!

I was gutted for Anthony, he was all over Jessie.

[Rob Thomas]

Jessie didn't look too good against the snake last night did he?? That said, Jessie hasn't long had a pretty hard fight with Anthony so he wasn't anywhere near as fresh as the snake.

[Justin Hurley]

Jesse had a few days between fights, and considering he has to drop so much water to make weight, he was definately disadvantaged.
I actually thought the latin snake would make better work of Jesse, so IMO Jesse summed up better than I expected. When Sergio got back to the corner he was moaning about how hard Jesse bangs. When Jesse rehydrates he must come in 10lbs heavier, so this must help him bang harder.
Jesse has a piss poor defence, when under pressure his hands are all over the place, he has the defensive skill of an amateur, if he worked on that, Jesse could be a much better boxer.

Sergio proved he was superior fighter though, he was just 10 times sharper, he just outclassed Jesse.
Sergio will make light work of Manfredo. I noticed that Manfredo comes out really strong for the first few rounds and then looks likes he is blowing and gets pulled apart.
I think Sergio has such a better level of fitness that he is going to make Manfredo look shit.

[Rob Thomas]

Yeah, you're right Just, Sergio's got to win now (if he hasn't already!!). It's been a great show though and I'd love to see another one - perhaps with bigger guys next time (we could do with a new heavyweight on the scene LOL!).

[Justin Hurley]

A heavyweight version would be brilliant.

[JohnOvManchester]

What a result!!!

[Jimmy Wheels]

I thought the snake was going to run and hide and frustrate Manfredo, but actually looked good in a fight like two marines tied together with a three foot rope. No big punch but he showed fast hands with a bit of snap to them. Manfredo looked like he was out of shape.
Reckon the snake would have had more of a fight against Alfonso.